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Hawking, Susskind and Cohen "Sets and Axioms"

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Quote: "For two decades, Stanford University physicist Leonard Susskind battled cosmologist Stephen Hawking over the behavior of black holes. Hawking said that when black holes eat their fill, they disappear, taking with them everything they consumed over their billions of years of existence. Susskind found this idea so disturbing that he publicly declared war -- a conflict he describes in his new book, "The Black Hole War." In a conversation before a recent appearance at the Los Angeles Public Library, Susskind recounted his long struggle to "make the world safe for quantum mechanics."" Go to


Paul J. Cohen. Quote: "Set Theory and the Continuum Hypothesis""
"He is best known for his solution of the first of the 23 problems that the German mathematician David Hilbert posed in his very influential address to the International Mathematical Union in 1900," Sarnak said. "By the 1950s, after the work of Gödel, this problem, known as the 'Continuum Hypothesis,' had become the central one in the set theory."

In the late 1870s, German mathematician Georg Cantor put forth a hypothesis that said any infinite subset of the set of all real numbers can be put into one-to-one correspondence either with the set of integers or with the set of all real numbers. All attempts to prove or disprove this conjecture failed until 1938, when Kurt Gödel showed it was impossible to disprove the continuum hypothesis.

Despite having never worked in set theory, Cohen proved the extremely surprising result that both the Continuum Hypothesis and the Axiom of Choice—two of the most basic ideas in mathematics—were actually undecidable using the axioms of set theory. This result, which meant that conventional mathematics could neither prove nor disprove concrete and well known mathematical assertions, caused healthy turbulence among philosophers, logicians and mathematicians concerned with the concept of truth." Go to

The Prisoner

Quote: "Perhaps the questions we need to ask Prof.Hawking are;"If we can observe mulitiple singularities does this tell us that there are multiple Universes or that there are multiple potential Universes, or quite the reverse (that there are not)?"

"Unsustainable Economy", another way of expressing zero?

The point about "Deflation" is that it is an accelerative process (hence "Mobius""...."), our participation precludes observation (some might say, "obviously" )."


"With reference to universal microwave background radiation theory it is clearly asinine to refer to variations in background radiation as only "tiny"* when the parameters of the "playing field" are infinite. If I understand Dr.Kashlinksky the fact that (according to our notions of time where radiation is the chronometer), there is any variation at all must be suggestive of the true profoundity of his observations. The existence of Prof.Hawking's "singularities" would seem to be confirmed by Dr.Kashlinksy's findings for they suggest that the continuum (or "Astrotome"), is variable at these "network-hubs" (in other words time is not necessarily a constant)." From "Particle Beam Physics/Weapons an Intelligence Black Hole?" by Williamtheb, go to

*For are they not both "great and small"?

Latest Update from John ("Astrotometry")


Quote: "Dark Flo'
To claim to be able to measure the length of time that the universe has existed is ridiculous. Hawking's singularities preclude the possibility for quantum applies and their influence expands. Why is there a so-called "super-massive" black-hole at the center of our galaxy? What is "dark-matter"? " Eponymous thread on message board by sandtrout2010.

Quote: "Supermassive black hole will 'eat' gas cloud
Researchers have spotted a giant gas cloud spiralling into the supermassive black hole at our galaxy's centre.

Though it is known that black holes draw in everything nearby, it will be the first chance to see one consume such a cloud.

As it is torn apart, the turbulent area around the black hole will become unusually bright, giving astronomers a chance to learn more about it.

The cloud, which is described in Nature, should meet its end in 2013.

Researchers using the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope estimate that despite its size, the cloud has a total mass of only about three times that of Earth.
They have plotted the cloud's squashed, oval-shaped path and estimate it has doubled its speed in the last seven years - to 2,350km per second.

It should spiral in to within about 40 billion kilometres of the black hole in the middle of 2013.

Reviews of existing pictures from the VLT show the cloud speeding up in recent years
Our local supermassive black hole, dubbed Sagittarius A*, lies about 27,000 light-years away, and has a mass about four million times that of our Sun.

As the name implies, beyond a certain threshold point - the event horizon - nothing can escape its pull, not even light itself.

But outside that regime is a swirling mass of material, not unlike water circling a drain. In astronomical terms, is a relatively quiet zone about which little is known.

That looks set to change, though, as the gas cloud approaches.

Spaghetti tester

It does not comprise enough matter to hold itself together under its own gravity, as a star might, so the cloud will begin to elongate as it meets its doom.

"The idea of an astronaut close to a black hole being stretched out to resemble spaghetti is familiar from science fiction," said lead author of the study Stefan Gillessen, from Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Germany.

"But we can now see this happening for real to the newly discovered cloud. It is not going to survive the experience."

It is likely that about half of the cloud will be swallowed up, with the remainder flung back out into space.

But this violent process will literally shed light on the closest example we have of an enigmatic celestial object.

The acceleration of the cloud's constituent material will create a shower of X-rays that will help astronomers learn more about our local black hole.

As astronomer Mark Morris of the University of California Los Angeles put it in an accompanying article in Nature, "many telescopes are likely to be watching"." Go to for pictures.
Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:23 pm
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